As the Catholic Church prepares to elect a new pope, Father François Odinet, national chaplain of Caritas France (Secours Catholique) since 2024, says the church’s credibility depends on whether it centers the poor. “If the last are truly first in the church—if the most fragile are placed at the center—then there’s room for everyone. The reverse isn’t true,” he told La Croix in an interview.
Odinet, a theologian and pastoral leader, warned against inward-looking debates and called on church leaders to stay focused on those living the “hardest” lives. He emphasized that unity within the Church will depend on trusting the Holy Spirit in those with whom one disagrees.
A 40-year-old priest from the Diocese of Le Havre, Father Odinet is also a recognized theologian and professor of pastoral and practical theology at Loyola Faculties in Paris. This dual role earned him a seat at multiple phases of the Synod, including as an expert at the final assembly in Rome in 2024.
La Croix: You’re a 40-year-old priest, formed during Benedict XVI’s pontificate and ordained early in Pope Francis’. What do you hope for most from the next pope?
Father François Odinet: First of all, there will be an element of surprise. We can’t reduce the future pope to a platform or a label. I’m not looking for a pope who speaks prolifically. I’m hoping for someone who will encourage us not to turn inward—to stop focusing solely on ourselves, on the church, our problems, or our potential divisions. Instead, I hope he helps us stay oriented toward the kingdom of God, which always surprises and challenges us—especially by keeping us attentive to those whose lives are the hardest.
What future do you see for the Catholic Church in Europe—decline, marginalization, or resurgence?
I wouldn’t frame it in those terms. It’s true that our church will increasingly become just one current of thought among others. But in many European countries, we remain the historic church. Accepting that we’re one among many doesn’t absolve us of caring for all people, including the vast majority who don’t identify with us. If the Catholic Church doesn’t carry the concern for the poor or advocate for a shared peace, no one else will do it for us.
I hope the pope and bishops will help us avoid settling into a fear of numerical decline. What should reassure us is our conviction that God is at work, first and foremost among the poorest and the smallest.
In Europe, the church no longer drives the dominant culture. How should it respond?
We don’t have an identity to defend, but a path to follow. Christ calls his disciples to follow him. He doesn’t start by telling them who they are. In fact, he doesn’t even define himself. His identity is revealed on the journey, and only fully after his death.
You were an expert at the Synod in Rome. Did you see new dynamics in the church? Has its center of gravity really shifted?
The Synod was a powerful experience. People from every continent came to Rome with a shared sense that unity must be found, not as uniformity, but as harmony. What struck me most was a kind of consensus, despite our different contexts, for example, on the role of women in the church. The whole point of the Synod was to trust how each local church lives out the Gospel in its culture, with the belief that this is not only good but also fruitful for other churches elsewhere.
Has Pope Francis brought the synodal process to completion?
Francis deliberately opened up a space for learning—without claiming to finish the job himself. What happens next will play out on two levels. First, what becomes of the reception process between now and 2028? Second—and more critically—is the stage when the most divisive topics will be addressed. There’s a risk of deep division, and I’ve seen how much that frightens bishops. We might expect the pope to step in and make a ruling, but then there’s a risk his decision won’t be accepted. The better path is genuine synodal discernment. That’s the real test of truth.
Does synodality reflect a specific moment in the church’s history? Why was it so important for Francis?
Francis has revived the reception of Vatican II within a church that now fully sees itself as global. At the time of the Council, European bishops still made up the majority. That’s no longer the case, not even among Catholics more broadly. That has two consequences: First, trust in inculturation—how the Gospel is received and lived locally. Second, trust in the sensus fidei—the spiritual intuition of the faithful. Francis often emphasized the sense of smell of the flock to discern the way forward.
Why is unity one of the church’s biggest challenges going forward?
We need to clarify what kinds of differences are acceptable. This is a major theological task: What belongs to universally shared doctrine, and what comes from context-based understanding? True communion is only possible if I trust that the Holy Spirit is at work in someone with whom I disagree.
How can the Church in France live out this unity, given its current polarization?
It’s a major challenge because unity can’t be imposed. Still, I see two “places” in France today where people from different perspectives are coming together: around the poor, and around Scripture. When people accompany those in poverty, they find themselves working side by side despite very different views. Similarly, when we come together to listen to Scripture, unity and dialogue can emerge.
Are you concerned about the sharp decline in priestly vocations in Europe? Who will accompany new catechumens if that trend continues?
The church is being challenged to welcome and accompany people as a community. It can’t rely on priests alone. I see this as a sign of the times. Today, many initiatives are being led by laypeople who, 150 years ago, might have entered religious life. Now they work, they live in couples. So the question isn’t just about the number of priests, but how we welcome what the Spirit is stirring in today’s church.
How can the church become more synodal at the local level? What kind of structure is needed for the years ahead?
There’s no one-size-fits-all model, but I see at least three criteria. First, our structure is only right if it helps us stand alongside those whose lives are the hardest. That’s the truest test of governance. Second, the church is expected to embody real fraternity. And third, are we able to trust the charisms already present, without fixating on what’s missing?
What do the poor expect from the church, in your view?
We need to ask them—and that’s a challenge. We need the right channels and ways to listen. In the Gospels, Jesus announces the kingdom of God precisely through his encounters with the poor. In other words, God renews the world from the bottom up.
My conviction is this: if the last are truly first in the church—if the most fragile are placed at the center—then there’s room for everyone. The reverse isn’t true. If we design a framework and then try to squeeze in the poor, it doesn’t work.
In what ways does the world need salvation today?
The risk is thinking only about eternal salvation, disconnected from the here and now. But with the ecological disaster threatening us all, the question of salvation becomes very real. We need to be saved from the evil, injustice, and violence we experience in our flesh today. The church’s faith tells us this salvation is stronger even than death.
The church’s voice seems increasingly hard to hear in today’s world. Should it simplify its message, even at the risk of diluting it? Or stand as a sign of contradiction, even at the risk of being marginalized?
I don’t believe in doctrinal rigidity, but I also don’t think we can negotiate on doctrine. Our relationship with the world isn’t primarily about attack, defense, or PR strategies. The truth is, the world produces violence. The question is: can we show humanity to those who suffer from that violence? At the same time, can we avoid internalizing it within the Church? I believe the church is credible wherever we can answer “yes” to both, even if never perfectly.
Reproduced with permission by La Croix International.
